PasoVoice.Com :: What would you say happened?

caliber · Site Admin

I remember when our MARKET was UP and HIGH ! when our horses where identified for their beauty... and presence!

What do you think happened?

This site is an ANDALUSIAN Horse site!

Look at their prices (euro), what are they doing that we are not?
http://www.zamoraandalusians.com/index.html

Here is a Show Andalusian Horse from their farm
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Bj9QS4gLE

Pasofinoguy

Pasos arnt for everyone. Some dont like the brio, some dont like the size, some dont like how they were trained. Yeh prices are way down. i just looked at a paso sites sales page and way low prices. Are the stallions breeding many mares this year. Its not even worth breeding unless you do it just for yourself. Lets say i had heavy and good size trail pasos that where really smooth and easy going. In a area where they cant give away grade horses and not good prices for ave qh's how do you sell a paso to these people. So sellng a horse for 5k or even 3k you have to sell it very young to even make a penny. So why do it at all. The horse market is gone and we just have to ride it out and wait.

BFF

I've heard complaints from owners of all breeds, I don't think that the Paso market is the only one affected. Also, just because they have high prices on their horses doesn't mean they are selling them for that amount. However I will say we get more interest in the Friesian Sport Horses we have for sale than we do the Paso's and like I've said before most people I've talked to know what a Friesian is but not a Paso. I agree with Adam in that I think it is something we are going to have to wait out but, in the meantime we still need to figure out how to market Paso's to new people. I had one man tell me about the Paso's "I think they are nice little horses for women and children" I just wonder how many people feel this way?

Sherry

Pasofinoguy

As far as men go. In this area they want a horse that is at least 14.2 and 1200 pounds. All i ever hear is how small my pasos are. And all they hear is how smooth mine are.

britzlove

First I have to say that I'm not at all impressed with the training of that horse. He's another victim of a bad training that is marketed as something desirable to learn. a complete misinterpretation of a historical horseman's tradition.

However, in my opinion, what we did is start breeding far too many. We sold people horses not with the thought about how great the experience would be to own them, and ride them, but sold horses with the only qualification being pushed is how much their offspring would sell for. Far too many people went bust and sold horses too cheap and allowed low market breeders to start up.

There are people that mortgage their houses to buy an Andalusian stallion, but they won't mortgage it enough to buy a herd of comparable mares, and they crossbreed to the cheapest wombs they can find, but they aren't sucessful, and they quit very easily.

The number one thing I think is, they are marketed to riders, not want to be breeders. In the dressage world, there's a school rumor that you really have to be quite advanced to ride an Andalusian, and for the most part, many people who want to ride them ride dressage.

You don't ride a fourth level horse if you aren't trained to typically. If you go to dreamhorse, or equine.com and look at the Andalusians for sale, you'll see write ups about dressage scores, championships, revision, etc. Information for riders. While there is mention of breeding potential sometimes, its an after thought, not the main highlighted selling factor.

Also, you don't have to worry about gait, they aren't shown in special tack, they don't have to be trained to trot, they have movement, or they don't.

They invest alot of money in the horses they ask alot of money for. In most instances, very little profit is actually made with these horses, as far as breeding. Eventually, after a stallion has begun proving himself through his offspring, the babies will start making breeders money. But most of them that are for sale are for sale from trainers, or owners looking for something different. The trainers make their money training horses, giving lessons, that's where most of the money comes from.

Take for example, the stallion I saw last April, that I have followed for over 10 years. When he first came on the scene, he wasn't famous, now he is. But his owner invested trucks full of money in his training, and promotion. But he now has championships of his own, and many many champion offspring in many venues. He has a full book, because his babies are legitimized. But, if you looked I bet at her books, she hasn't always profited from him, other than the joy of owning him.

I haven't given up my dream of owning one someday. I'm close to owning a nice crossed one.

BFF

Do you think because sales are down people are breeding less? And if they are do you think that will help prices/sales get back to what they used to be?

britzlove

I think the breeders who have buyers haven't changed practices at all. I think there are still clueless breeders losing money, continuing the trend by overproduction.

I think #1, what's happening in the economy right now, needs to happen, for everything. Yeah, I'm one of those that's saying this will be good in the long run, it's just really hard for people to see that when the immediate situation is so hard to endure.

So, I think the pleasure market is past flooded. There are simply far too many average use horses to fill the demand. If you are a buyer looking for a horse to ride at home, on trail rides, open shows, fun shows etc, you have so many thousand choices at bargain price all the way to free. I think the people that are still breeding with all the preparation required to market a specialty, are still doing so sucessfully, and should.

I think we have breeders in this breed that are the kind that need to stick around. Then, we have those who never, ever should have tried to get into the business and I wish they'd crawl back under their rocks.

Will breeding less help the price go back up? Nope, not even when the economy recovers. At least, not necessarily, it is still going to depend on what the horse is. The only thing that will help a horse's price is to follow the demand.

caliber · Site Admin

britzlove

I really think, that there needs to be, with regards to this breed, some standards continually set by the show circuit. Now, I realize that you don't want people to think that they are only show horses, but, the standard has to be set there.

Bringing up the Andalusians is great, but see, they've really changed little about how they are judged, and certified (revised, inscribed etc). As I said, I bought my mare with the express intent to breed her to an Andalusian or Lusitano. I've whittled it down to 3 or 4 candidates. I can have confidence, that at least if I breed her to these stallions, they should have enough to make them very marketable, because, she's marketable, and the offspring of the stallions are as well, and they have all been revised, they are all National Champions, some more than once, two have been championed or scored well in International competition.

However, like I said I dream of owning one someday, a purebred. I may hold the above standards to my crossbreds, but when I buy one, as I hope to, I would likely import one.

That's another thing we really have to do here, is import more pasos. By and large, there are simply more higher quality horses if you search other countries. Very, very, few Americans can understand the art of breeding.

BFF

Ok, I'm just going to be really open and honest here because well, that's who I am Very Happy

You all scare me. Seriously. We are new horse owners and since buying our horses we have chosen to breed one of our mares. I do feel like we have made educated decisions with the help of a professional trainer but I'm wondering are we of those people whom you feel are worthy of breeding our horses or are we some of those who you would like to see crawl back under their rocks?

Do we know what we are doing? I would be the first to say " NO " but, thats why we have someone to help us everystep of the way. And, that's why I'm here on this forum to seek help from those of you who have been there and done that and most of all to be educated. Please don't take this the wrong way but I am feeling like what I am finding here is a lot of negative opinions.

britzlove

Whoo,

I'm sorry, occaisonally I get carried away and I say things that I expect, the people who've read all my blabbering before to understand.

By all means, breed your mare. Especially if you are breeding for yourself. If you were encouraged to breed because the baby would be sold quickly when it was young, I'd encourage you to think about it some more.

When I said the crawl under rocks thing, I was thinking of one person who sells pinto horses, and was literally run out of the showring a few times, who sells people below average quality for way above average price and her "pitch" is invest this much, get this much back as soon as the baby comes.

I am very sorry, I really am. I shouldn't let those things taint the way I write sometimes but I accidently do.

One other thing that I would do, is visit as many breeding animals as possible though, and be open to as many people as possible.

I said follow the demand, even if you are breeding for sale, go find what is selling, first, what people really want. It's something that's actually fun to do, and you don't need help. I think it's great you have help though, but one sided isn't the way, go find out which kinds of horses actually regularly go to new homes. Because of the plight of the homeless I am overprotective.

Please don't think I was being critical to you. Unless the ONLY reason you're breeding is because this pro told you to, or encouraged you to. If you are breeding average, please, think about it a little harder.

BFF

Thank you.

I do feel we are making wise decisions and I trust our trainer 100% I know he is only looking out for our best interest. We bought our mare in Dec. 07 and she foaled in Jan 08. We did buy her with the thought of possibly selling the foal and I even had him for sale for a short period of time and then decided we would keep him with hopes of someday showing him. We then rebred the same mare and will also keep this foal due March 09. I've not seen the sires to the foals in person, only on video. We attended Nationals as spectators trying to become more educated and it seems the stallions we bred to are producing. I would like to start showing and liked the idea of raising my horses from day one. But, until then I have a pleasure gelding that I may show locally.

Am I breeding average? I sure hope not. I guess time will tell. Wink

caliber · Site Admin

WELL! BFF! I see very well bred horses on your site! Wink

so, it seems to me and only my opinion, you are way above average.

Is the Majestuoso mare still available?

BFF

Thank you.

Yes, Chewy is still available.

caliber · Site Admin

She is exceptional!