Been reading up a bit on the forum, and online, and I have some questions as to 4 beat gaits and other breeds.
CONFEPASO basically excepts the Colombian Paso Fino, the PPR Paso Fino and American Paso Finos as long as they have the desired height, and no big stockings or pink nostrils.
Then they accept the trotting horses, and the trocha horses as long as they are from Colombian decent under Colombian rules. ( forget about gallop, all horses can gallop )
They claim that the paso horses of the Americas are all one breed, but uhhhh... I have been doing a little research and they are sorta leaving a lot of people out.
First of all the Peruvian pasos with 4 beat gaits ( although I don't admire the front action) they sort of are a distinct breed, an they all tend to look and move alike.
then the Mangalarga horses of Brazil ( ones i only discovered recently)
they are Brazil's national horses and you can find them on youtube, and on www.fourbeatgaitedhorses.com they also have a Mangalarga show in germany on youtube. or also, Raca or cavalo Campolina, and they divide the gait into diferent " Marchas" or they use perhaps the word " Marcha" instead of " Paso ", so far I have seen these horses do Corto, trot, and Foxtrot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNdc0By6gYk&feature=related
Costa Rica has a national horse called the " Caballo Trotador de Costa Rica"
Trotadores Costa Rica http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxBknNI7p6c
they have to trot in place, ( like piafe) on a small square sounding board for two minutes as one of their tests. the link will show you the horses doing this in their finals. steping of the board is a disqualification.
Would CONFEPASO except these horses at a show?
The USA has a number of " Mountain" breeds that all do 4 beat corto type gaits, some saddlebreds can rack at 4 beats as well.
Well, to start off is the Confederation of paso horses of the Americas really representing all the Paso horses of the Americas?
Now lately Puerto Rico has been importing Pacers to give size and speed to the Andadura sport. ( they are also doing some crosses) but they have shows with 300 horses, and so much popularity.
If the PFHA promotes 4 beat gaits will they accept the others that also do 4 beat gaits?
also, if Mountain horses and saddlebred horses existed in the USA why did they turn to Puerto Rican and later Colombian Pasos for gaited Horses?
Please comment, any input would be very welcomed.
Jo-Ann
( Had to edit to correct my Spelling Horrors )
Last edited by Ferrum on Sat May 31, 2008 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
We've started exploring the origins of the breed, and the off-shoots in several threads here. Unfortunately, I personally am in a place where I need to work on my homework for credit at the University so I can hardley get into my major project right now. I am taking the reference materials for "The Conquerors" by Deb Bennett and trying to go back through the research. I'll get there and it'll be posted here.
All New World horses have the same origins. My dream is to delve even deeper into origins than has been done before.
I can only say, that there are many quality differences between the paso horses and certainly the Mountain horses, and the other horses that might 4 beat.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:49 pm
caliber
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 2842
Location: Paso World
First! WELCOME TO PASOVOICE!!!! I am glad to see you here!
above I found a better link to a Brazilian Mangalarga, or Grande Marchador, or Raca Campolina, I am still learning, lucky that Portuguese is similar enough to Spanish that I can get certain things. The Paso Fino, they Call Marcha Picada I think.
Anyhow, I am posting this link because it showed the gait well, plus this huge and very attractive body type. It is like owning a gaited Lusitano.
I think one of the greatest detractor for me of some paso finos if I find them small. When I went to Spain and showed people video of maraquita and other pasos and they said ohh look how cute it looks like a " Toy Horse" and that really well, ... upset me... lol
Jo-Ann
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:36 pm
BigJ
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 1033
Welcome Jo-Ann!
My quick contribution is how the paso fino as most think of our breed is different from others. Gait, alone isn't sufficient to say one belongs and one doesn't.
We are trying to unravel the history of how the breed developed to better understand our horses. I'm working through several books, one by Deb Bennett and another, "History of the Horse" that discusses the development of the Iberian horses. Also, Sylvia Loche discusses the Iberian horse. I've found another one written by a French General discussing the Berber horses during the 1860's. It will probably be a project that lasts many months as we read and the discuss our discoveries.
I believe one test we can use is the consistency from generation to generation. While one or two individuals can deviate from the average and not change the response of the population, the question is when randomly crossing individuals do the offspring still resemble their parents and their parents' parents? So we could use other gaited horses but will the result be familiar to us and then if the results are crossed will they be true to their ancestors?
This is what I see the purpose for CONFEPASO aside from it hosting shows. It will be interesting when we get a copy of the by-laws to see what its mission is.
I think Colombia does have some legit argument about including the diagonal modalities, again, something that should be discussed openly and a safe environment. They do stem from the paso horses just as andadura was a part of the PPR until recently. Also paso finos do have diagonal modalities and some trot exquisitely with little prompting.
While I don't accept calling the trotons and trochadors "paso fino" their history begins there. Whether they are slowly evolving into a separate and distinct breed on their own is another topic that should be investigated.
Color, size, etc. all needs to come to the table as well. As with so many things, the first pass at making an international "standard" may have been arbitrary just for practical purposes. You have to start somewhere and so these countries started with what they knew. I'm not supportive of some of the CONFEPASO breed standards, so I think it should be reopened to be more inclusive.
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Jo-Ann! you have bought such great topic! Thanks! but I also have many questions like everyone else I guess..in regards to CONFEPASO! .. This Forum was created to share and to learn....
But, are we referring to GALLOP or are we referring to Galope from Trote Y Galope!, Galope is a collected canter,now is Colombian Collected Canter, the same as all other Canters!, might be in mechanism, but for sure does not feel the same!!!! no hoping! that is why! no need to post!
I will be back later on!!! NOW I need to run! again! Thanks Jo Ann for bringing this topic up!
Yes Caliber, the Canter is a whole other issue, so I was planing to avoid it. There is no word except Galope for both Gallop and Canter in Spanish in Puerto Rico. But, they call a fast galope in Spain Galope Tendido, the colected reunido of course . for this reason I really wanted to omit both gallop and canter for now.
I have the rules for CONFEPASO as accepted Verbatim by los Abiertos for the Mundial back in 2005 I think it was. ( have a booklet that they published found it wraped in plastic left on my stadium seat. )
If you want to get into the gallop we can.
caliber wrote:
Jo-Ann! you have bought such great topic! Thanks! but I also have many questions like everyone else I guess..in regards to CONFEPASO! .. This Forum was created to share and to learn....
But, are we referring to GALLOP or are we referring to Galope from Trote Y Galope!, Galope is a collected canter,now is Colombian Collected Canter, the same as all other Canters!, might be in mechanism, but for sure does not feel the same!!!! no hoping! that is why! no need to post!
I will be back later on!!! NOW I need to run! again! Thanks Jo Ann for bringing this topic up!
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:31 pm
caliber
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 2842
Location: Paso World
Sorry Jo Ann!! I think for now is important to concentrate in Confepaso! Galope can wait for now! LOL
Hi Caliber,
I am not very knowledgeable as to what CONFEPASO wants with Trocha and with Trote. I tried to learn from the competions in Los Abiertos in Puerto Rico, but there are/were very few in competion. Sometimes only one or None competed. I wrote about then in the first article I published way back in 2004. This includes la Mundial that was held in Puerto Rico.
If you have references to a Top Quality Trocha on Youtube, and also a Top Quality Trote Please share with me. They have many videos, but I am not sure what considered the best in those modalities for Confepaso or for Colombia.
Thank you Caliber and Britzlove.
I thought that Trocha was two beat not four, and so was Trote, only trocha was faster and lower.
Britzlove
I am talking about these now because you have stated you don't want me to talk about other breeds. You leave me no choice really.
Caliber,
I am glad in the video you posted the lack of suspension was pointed out. I wrote about that in that 2004 4 Tiempos artricle, because it makes the ride much more comfortable for the rider. Very beautiful presentation, but I have to view it again as it is stopping or stutering even when I replay it after it is fully loaded as I have several times.
Sometimes if I view the movies on yutube in the early mornings, they load faster and play better.
One horse that really I really liked back in 2004 was a gray horse trote galope horse, who could actually gallop in place, with virtually no foward movement. He was a gray horse with Black mane and tail.
Jo-Ann
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:28 pm
caliber
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 2842
Location: Paso World
Great Jo-Ann, glad to help!
Please feel free to open a new thread wih your article dated from 2004 to 4 Tiempos!,
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