PasoVoice.Com :: Standard Characteristics of ELEVATIONS

BigJ

Thanks!

britzlove

Hmmm, OK now that I have found this thread and all the wind has gone out of it for the time being, I will add my thoughts and questions, not sure which it will be.

From the pictures, I notice one thing I've just found in observance of different horses over time. If that picture included the shoulder portion, hmm, I'll need to look up the Spanish for that in a minute, but any way, if more of the horse was shown, the shoulders would be deeper and stronger in angle on the diagonal horses. Now understand going into this, I am terrible at putting into conversation, my thoughts as they are.

What I mean is, the majority of trocha horses I have seen have a very deep, very angled shoulder. and hip too, but lets stick to shoulder since only the front end was shown. BUT, and see here's the young student thing, like right now I am looking at my wall calendar, which has a fino CH on there, and his shoulders pretty deep, but the distance at the neck tie in makes it look less so. OK, here's where I have no idea whether you can make sense of what I'm saying. But it's something I see, readily, and easily, a major difference in the horses that are trocha, certainly trote, and even to some extent horses that are fino, but shift towards trocha as often as they can.

I'm wondering if maybe I can diagram it.

Where I tie this physical difference into the discussion, is experience outside the breed. QH's breed for western pleasure, english pleasure classes have tapped into a certain type build so that they can't freely get but action in their gaits. They have taken it so far as a handicap, so that's not at all what I am saying, but I mean to say that the angles here and head and neck placement can have an affect on how a horse is able to perform.

I certainly believe that the photo was not a means rather to explain gait difference as much to provide an example of typical elevations seen in each modality. That's making room to say there are atypical examples as well, plenty of them. But I bet if we were to view 100 random samples of each, we'd see that there are enough similiar to provide with the feeling that this is aspect having something to do with gait.

I really hope that made sense. or a little sense.

caliber · Site Admin

quoted by: Britzlove
I certainly believe that the photo was not a means rather to explain gait difference as much to provide an example of typical elevations seen in each modality. That's making room to say there are atypical examples as well, plenty of them. But I bet if we were to view 100 random samples of each, we'd see that there are enough similiar to provide with the feeling that this is aspect having something to do with gait.

I really hope that made sense. or a little sense.Quoted!

Great observation Britz and makes all sense. Kerry should be posting the translation from Angela Ochoa, our dear friend Angela was kind enough to help us with drafts... based on many Talleres (clinics,worshops) and observations presented in Colombia.

We all know that in the States we have 3 different types of classes!, the Classic Fino, Performance and Pleasure...keep in mind that in Colombia we only have ONE, the PASO FINO COLOMBIANO.....

sorry, this article has taken so long to be posted, but we wanted to be certain that we had the correct intention and was comprehended....

BigJ

It makes sense to me Britz.

I concur. To elaborate further, how the neck ties in is something few who criticize pasos for straight shoulders really take a look at. Now I'm not from another breed, so cannot say if this is true or not; however, it seems I read allot about the shoulder angle from folks who seem to be comparing pasos to other breeds. Well, perhaps pasos are straighter in the shoulder than other breeds, but are they truly that straight? If they are then we are breeding the same restrictions of movement in our horses.

As to the questions about foot elevation, I am still waiting to hear from a reliable source rather than continue to conjecture. Colombia is far advanced in many aspects of the breed. I've noticed the approach is much more analytical in some ways.

I don't mind waiting.

britzlove

I'm getting ready to scan some examples I think. I had to post my intro.

Kerry W · Site Admin

No pressure!!

britzlove

crud...scanner problems
I'll post as soon as I can

grif

BigJ

grif

BigJ

I agree.

I also think it would be good to slowly and systematically begin these other topics as well under this forum. I lost count how many things Britz brought up, but I think they all deserve an indepth discussion.

grif

For sure.

caliber · Site Admin

By Angela Ochoa

This is not completed! there is the chart and the pictures to go along with this!!!!! PLEASE KEEP hanging in there!

Hay algunas cosas en las que no estoy muy de acuerdo. Por ejemplo:

There are something that I find myself not agreeing. For example;

1. La trocha colombiana tambien llamada pasitrote, en su mecánica de movimiento es un aire intermedio entre el paso fino y el trote, por lo tanto, la elevación de sus extremidades es intermedia.

1. The Colombian trocha also call pasitrote, in this mechanic of movement is an intermediate air between the paso fino and the trote, therefore, the elevation of the extremities is intermediate.

Es la primera vez que oigo que la trocha se llama pasi-trote, Por el contrario pasi-trote es un defecto en la locomocion del caballo colombiano que se considera por reglamento como falta descalificante. Me parece, que este articulo es una buena oportunidad para aclarar que las modalidades colombianas son muy definidas: el trote es trote y la trocha es trocha. de hecho el trote es en dos tiempos y la trocha en 4.

Pasi-trote is a shortcoming in the locomotion of the Colombian horse that is considered to be by regulation an absence DESQUALIFIED descalificante.

It seems to me, that this article is a good opportunity to clarify that the Colombian modalities are very definite: the trote is a trote and the trocha is a trocha. In fact the trote is a two beat gait and the trocha is a four beat gait.

2. si premiamos trotones con braceo bajito no solo vamos a crear confusiones a los criadores en sus parámetros de crianza, sino también vamos a modificar su conformación.

2. If we reward trotons with low hands not only we are going to create confusion to the breeders in his parameters of breeding, but also we are going to modify the conformation.

Para premiar un caballo necesitas un puntaje. Del 100 % de la tabla de Confepaso o Fedequinas: Fenotipo 26 % , manejo 24 % y movimiento 50 %; las extremidades anteriores tienen en esa tabla un valor preestablecido de 6%, eso quiere decir que si tienes un caballo de buen fenotipo, bien adiestrado y con buenos movimientos aunque probablemente no sea el de mayor elevacion puede ser un buen candidato a obtener una cinta, es el caso de una excelente yegua muy ganadora en colombia que se llama La Caprichosa, no la mas braceadora pero de excelente conjunto, de hecho es la campeona de las nacionales del año pasado y el ejemplar de año hembra en trote y galope.
Si por el contrario tienes un ejemplar de elevacion correcta pero tiene problemas de entrenamiento y posiblemente no la acompaña el mejor fenotipo al hacer los puntajes que debemos hacer los jueces para elaborar el marcador, puede ser que la primera tenga 85 puntos y la segunda 68. Por eso me parece drastico descalificar los caballos solo por que no tienen la elevacion correcta y aseverar que no podemos premiarlos por que confundimos a los criadores. Ahora que si tenemos dos ejemplares con puntajes similares y uno de ellos presenta mayor elevacion, eso puede ser un argumento que haga la diferencia para colocarlos en el marcador que se puede explicar en el microfono.

To reward a horse you need a score. Of 100 % of the scoring of CONFEPASO or Fedequinas: Phenotype 26 %, handling 24% and movement 50%; the previous extremities have in this scoring a pre-established value of 6%. If you have a horse of good phenotype, trained well and with good movements, although perhaps not perfect elevation, it can be a good candidate for winning a ribbon. It is the case of an excellent winning mare in Colombia, named La Caprichosa, not more low moving but of excellent form, in fact there is the champion of the nationals last year and the Horse of the Year, a female in trote and galope.
If on the contrary you have a horse of correct elevation but it has problems of training and possibly the best phenotype does not accompany her on having done the scoring that we must make the judges to prepare the scoreboard, it can be that the first one has 85 points and the second one 68. That's why it seems to me drastic to discredit the horses only as that they do not have the correct elevation and to affirm that we cannot reward for that we confuse the breeders. Now when if we have two copies with scoring similar and one of them presents major elevation, this can be an argument that does the difference to place them in the scoreboard that it is possible to explain in the microphone.

3. Un caballo de paso fino con mucha elevación de posteriores y un braceo muy bajo, si bien en algunos casos podría ser importante como reproductor para compensar defectos en muchas yeguas de cría, en la pista no debe ser el mejor, pues allí deben ganar los que mas se acerquen al prototipo.

3. A Paso Fino horse with high elevation in the rear and very low hands, although in some cases it might be important as a breeding animal to compensate shortcomings in many mares' foals, in the show ring it must not be placed first, since there they must award those who more approach the prototype.

Tambien me parece una aseveracion arriesgada. La mayor cualidad en comun que tienen caballos como Capitan, La Petra, Terremoto, Tormento, Tartaro, la recientemente muerta campeona colombiana y ejemplar del año 2007 Esfinge de Lusitania y la campeona nacional 2008 hace un mes en Bogota y campeona de campeonas Pecadora de Yerbabuena, es justamente la elasticidad y elevacion de su tren posterior sin perder por esto ni suavidad o velocidad ni, importantisimo: !!Quietud de anca !! La frase que citas sugiere que los caballos Paso fino deben ser patiarrastrados. Cuando en un caballo Paso fino que trabaja a gran velocidad, ejemplo Simbolo de Besilu a 680 batidas por minuto, justamente la dificultad radica en realizarlas con elasticidad y elevacion del tren posterior por que le agrega mayor dificultad que realizarlas sin ejecucion o patiarrastrados.

Also it looks like to me a risky assertion. The biggest quality together that have horses as Capitan, La Petra, Terremoto, Tormento, Tartaro, recently Colombian champion in 2007, now deceased, Esfinge de Lusitania, and the national champion 2008 one month ago in Bogota and champions' champion, Pecadora de Yerbabuena, it is exactly the elasticity and elevation of the hocks, without losing gentleness or speed not, the most important:!! Quietness of croup!! The phrase that he suggests appointments that Paso Fino Spent the horses they must have low rear movement. When in a Paso Fino horse that works at high speed, example Simbolo de Besilu up to 680 beats per minute, exactly the difficulty takes root in realizing them with elasticity and elevation of the hinds for which he adds major difficulty that them to realize without execution or low rear movement.

Estos 7 ejemplos, que son la crema y nata del paso Fino, el tren posteror, que igualmente vale 6% en la tabla, tienen 6 sobre 6; no hacerlo como ellos empieza a rebajar puntaje

These examples, which are the cream and cream of the Paso Fino, the train posterior (hind movements, that likewise is worth 6% in the board, have 6 on 6; if they do not do it, it begins to lower the score. I like to see: Polished, rapid, beautiful, excellent frame, brio, ideal elevation. They lose points for not having the elevation that the judges are looking for.

Felix te agradezco que me permitas opinar sobre lo que estas escribiendo, dejame extraer otra parte de la conferencia de la tabla de Confepaso o fedequinas que es la herrameieta en la cual se basan los juzgamientos que te pueden ayudar.

Felix I am grateful to you that you allow me to comment on what you are writing, allow me to extract another part of the conference of the table of Confepaso or fedequinas that is the tools(herrameieta) on which there are based the judging) juzgamientos that can help you

Kerry W · Site Admin