PasoVoice.Com :: Fino fillies at the IPHF show

Roseanne

I have 4 fino fillies that I am trying to get ready for the IPHF show next week - all for the 36-48 month class. Only 2 of them are preregistered so I had to see if I could add stalls etc. I'm praying all 4 of them make it with their new found riders (since my husband can't ride them all in there) but only time will tell, and I love them no matter what so I'm trying not to think about it too much.

I was told that right now there are already 16 fino fillies entered in that class. Ten years ago the fino filly classes in Florida would have 6-10 entries in that age group at a big show. And then half of them would be pleasure by today's standards.

My fillies are way ahead of where I used to expect fillies this age to be. They have to be - everybody has a good fino filly now. But I still don't understand what happened in the last 10 years to make it this way? I know my trainer is a lot better than he used to be -since he continues to learn every day. But what about everybody elses fillies?

There are alot of fillies coming out of mares that are not "all that" - for instance my best one is out of a Patrimonio mare that never made it in the showring so she became a brood mare early. Another one is from a Capuchino mare that I didn't really even want to breed but my husband insisted and now the baby's awesome.

I feel like ther's a missing link flying right over my blonde head! We complain all the time about how inconsistently our breeding stallions gait - (except my stallion of course!) and alot of the mares are difficult temprament wise, yet our fino classes are busting at the seems - what's bringing this on?

BigJ

Dunno, Roseanne but I can testify I have witnessed this a couple of times in the breed for a period in each decade where the mares are the ones who are truly phenomenal. The females for the past 2-3 years are the most consistent fantastic horses. I wish some were male...

I honestly think the mares are the key to the breeding success of the stallion and the true mainstay of paso finos.

I have had full siblings (brother, sister) where the females outshine their brothers. I tend to breed to the female lines, so I do wonder if that has something to do with it.

Also, the predominant sire line such as Resorte IV is waning. Perhaps this is providing opportunities we may have ignored before.

Roseanne

I'm only home for a few hours before I have to get back to Jacksonville and I just noticed your comments - and yea - sometimes the obvious is so hard to see when we are blinded by so many factors!

Your comment about the Resorte IV lines is probably the MAJOR influence I was missing in trying to understand what's happening with the rapid improvement we are seeing.
It's kind of insidious isn't it - the slow creeping infiltration of a long dominant line?

I also think the boys are out there - competiting stallions is kind of like poker - based on a bluff! As judging systems improve and all our judges in all our organizations start to judge gait first, we are going to see some consistent stallions. The expectation of gait, good manners and ease of handling is rapidly on the rise. The days of having a big bad stallion that wins when he's not in gait are fading away.

Pasofinoguy

thats right if you dont gait your out. They have been kicking them out for awhile now but its becoming a problem for those who love breeding stallions who are prone to trocha. Then only the trainer can ride the horse cause he just wont gait for mr ao. This breed is all about gait and its great to see them kicking out the horses that cant do it

Pasofinoguy

Both youth riders kicked out for not gaiting. We can still have speed and solid gait we dont have to cheat our kids like this.

caliber · Site Admin

The Judge did a wonderful explanation. Every organization should be responsible in making sure the proper standards are taught and protected.

I am sure those young adults are now a little more educated for next time around. The Youth is our future..... and we must teach them right.
JMHO

Roseanne

I haven't seen every youth class, but I do know that in Fino Junior last night Manny Sanz Jr. rode my mare La Sinfonia de JR and my husband said she was troche and needed excusing. He said the other horse had behavior issues but did not elaborate.

During daily training all our fino horses (on my farm) are ridden in a relaxed troche and even the very best (Maraquita!) are in troche at intervals in the arena. It's rider cues that help them know what is expected at any given moment. Manny has been riding all his life and knows when a horse is in gait and does not expect to win in troche.

The competition judging will always be subjective on some level no matter how good our systems are - that is a reality of competition that eveyone that is competing has to accept - both kids and adults. If a person is only there to win, both the horse and the rider are missing the joy that they can experience together in that arena. Yes we all want to be rewarded- but there is a much greater reward than somebody elses opinion.

Pasofinoguy

During daily training all our fino horses (on my farm) are ridden in a relaxed troche and even the very best (Maraquita!) are in troche at intervals in the arena....

I dont understand trocha and fino then. Yeh i know and have been told trocha is needed in fino horses to make them faster. If thats the case i dont want fino. I want a paso fino. A horse with the paso gait. Yeh horses can come in and out sometimes but When you have to ask them to stay in it then that puts that horse on the line of being something other then a paso fino. 4 beat evenly spaced gait not trocha. I dont think that kicking out horses that arnt gaiting will fix anything. People will breed to the fastest fino stallions around and then pray that there family can enjoy there horses in the ring and not just there trainer.

Pasofinoguy

This isnt fair, I should say why I am bringing this up.

My first paso who I love and miss was a paso that was heavy in trocha.
But for me a ao it was hard to know when she came out of gait. The trocha was very smooth and I didnt know. And yes i did beat other horses while in and out of gait mostly out of gait. And that isnt fair for those that where showing against me in gait. A horse that wont stay in gait shouldnt be in the ring. Like they said at this show today 3 of the judges saw the horse out of gait and that was that. And its the way it should be and will be.

Now i did breed this mare 2 times both to solid gaited stallions. The filly I still have out of her is 1/4 pr and even with the trocha in her is so solid in her gait it makes me very happy. I dont have to think about if i am in or out of gait because I am always in gait. I will not let her relax into a gait that doesnt belong. We gait or walk, thats it.

Now I am sure that compaired to horses in the se my 2 fillies are thought of as just trail horses. But I enjoy them

I am not trying to change anything. Just watch what you breed to because your kids and family will ride these horses and you shouldnt want them to look bad cause there horse that they love wont stay in gait.

jmho and this wasent ment to be pointed at anyone but everyone as a whole.

Roseanne

Allowing horses to vary gait during training is a relaxation technique. It allows muscle mass to build in a relaxed state without the build up of lactic acid that occurs when muscles work too hard too long too quickly. it's like jogging at intervals even though you are a sprinter in the track and field events.

Long trail rides are required to train for competition, horses that are not allowed to vary their gait fry - mentally and physically. Troche is not just a label it's a mechanism.

Roseanne

And you can bet that there are many trail horses that have competition capability, it's a matter of choice, training, assets to spend etc.
The smoother a trail horse is the more likely that they could be trained for other things.

Pasofinoguy

it's like jogging at intervals even though you are a sprinter in the track and field events

When people build up to running and jogging when they relax they walk they dont change gait.... walk 3 min run 5 for a week then walk 3 min run 7 min for the next week. then walk 3 min run 10 min and so on and so on. Allowing a horse to use a gait that will get your butt kick out of a class well shouldnt be used but lots of people do so I am just talking to the wind.

Roseanne

I wouldn't worry about having different ideas about training methods because that's major thread topic isn't it!
But I do know that it sure feels good to be in troche when it could be a trot!

Pasofinoguy

Well it is better then a trot.

Roseanne

ok I'm off to the show now - but think on this one while I'm gone -
I have the PFHA high point A/O classic fino mare for 2004 - she's a multi purpose mare and I love her very much. We won together from Tunica to Asheville to Miami. But boy does she love to trot!

Lately she's matured and decided troche is a little more comfortable for us both, thank God - but she is very willing to trot for those who she dislikes! The only episode I had with her doing it in the showring was at Spectrum when she refused to work off against Imagine- who at the time was the one of the winningest mares in Florida. I'm not sure how I made her angry -I guess I will never know. But I never blame her for her trot, or her troche. She's produced great babies and is a sure footed partner for any trailriding situation.

If I compete her again some day I won't be afraid of being booted because she's not a machine and she accepts me no matter what, so I'll do the same. We are both inconsistent from time to time.